Amen! The Catholic Church is the one and only true Church of Jesus Christ, outside of which there is no salvation. As this is traditional Catholic dogma, it boggles the mind how anyone who considers himself a "traditionalist" could ever contemplate leaving. "Lord, to whom shall we go..." (John 6:68)
The hyperpapalism you decry reminds me (on a different order of magnitude, but still similar) of the Muslim belief in Allah. He can do anything at all to the extent that the action could be contradictory or nonsensical, but if he wills it, it is so. It's not to say that the true God is always understandable (just ask Job), but He doesn't contradict Himself. It'd also telling that, to my knowledge, there's no mention of Allah loving people/creation. And wouldn't a pope who acted in a hyperpapal manner also be unloving?
Yes! The Regensburg Address notes the difference between voluntarism and belief in the Logos, in the God who is supreme truth and always acts consistently with that truth, for the good of His creatures.
This is a pathos argumentation that I tend to use when dealing with orthodox friends who seek to convert me. How can I possibly leave my heritage? How can I be someone I’m not? I am so western to the core I can never be eastern. Most of my orthodox friends are born in the US with no trace of eastern ancestry. They were either raised Catholic or Protestant and eventually gave up on the West for a Utopia belief of Eastern Orthodoxy.
To be honest sedevacantism is the only logical solution in this crisis. Most in the Novus Ordo are public heretics and apostates. By being in religious communion with Mister Prevost and the local heretic bishops, you are in union with everything Vatican II is about.
I used to go to indult masses in my hometown 10-20 years ago. The Novus Ordo hierarchy hates the traditional mass and the traditional faith. They are all children of heresy and apostasy. Truth and Error cannot coexist in the same organization. You can’t have Mister James Martin and Mister Raymond Burke under the same umbrella while professing completely different things. That is what you call a sect. Anglicans have sects. Talmudics have sects. Catholics aren’t supposed to have sects.
If one was to objectively observe the situation without preconceived bias to any position, one would have to come to the conclusion that the Novus Ordo is becoming to some variation of "Anglican-Lite". Again, in the Novus Ordo you have the "High Church" which consists of those who prefer the Rite of 1962. Then you have those who prefer the Low Church, that being the New Mass. Of course, you have the Eastern Rites as well. You can't have members of one religion, who hold completely contradictory views on essential issues. Go ask the average Novus Ordo parishioner, what is his view on homosexuality, abortion and other moral issues. Go ask the average Novus Ordo parishioner, if he believes in Catholic dogmas like the eucharist, purgatory, whether Catholicism is the true religion. You will be surprised, the average person who goes to the Novus Ordo is highly likely not Catholic. The average Novus Ordo clergy also hold onto one or more heresies, whether they preach it publicly or hold it occultly. Sedevacantists bicker and fight over issues which are not remotely trivial. I would say, a Catholic can go with confidence to a sedevacantist chapel, and they will get the exclusively The Catholic Faith. The same faith that grandparents and great-grandparents knew and cherished. You can't find that in the Novus Ordo. People that say they do, are liars. I ordered Fr Knox's book, and look forward to reading it.
No, we do not have to leave for Tradistan. We can, and should, build it right here because we have to fight evil where it is--we cannot flee from it. We need Catholic Shires to showcase the best of Christendom by building better families, organizations, and towns based on our Catholic faith. Until traditional Catholics seriously start to regroup and organize, we will continue to be picked-off one-by-one.
See my response to this opening sentence in your post below: "During the past dozen years (and running), one hears of Catholics losing or questioning their faith because they think: “If a pope can be so wrong, then the Catholic religion mustn’t be true.'"
That line of thought makes sense to me, after the painfully erroneous things I have seen the past three popes do and say. When I saw outrageous actions by previous popes, such as the inclusion of a Buddha statue at the Assisi event. under Pope John Paul II or how Pope Benedict XVI kissed a Koran, I was consoled by what I had been taught. I was told that no pope no matter how depraved or unbelieving or heretical in his actions had ever authentically taught erroneous doctrines. Then came the infamous footnote and interpretation that allowed couples married outside the laws of the church to continue living in sinful unions without embracing chastity, and I saw that Pope Francis added it to the ordinary teaching magisterium of the Church. THis was in spite of how it contradicted what the Church has always and everywhere taught. Then I thought, what else do I have to hang onto? But then the only answer is Peter's, Where else can I go?
Thank you so much for this piece. The church unfortunately has a history of condemning its most faithful who prove their faithfulness by remaining unified with her.
I think the greater population forgets the Pope is just a man. (Hopefully) more credentialed than the rest of us but still susceptible to errors and sin. I will always have great love and reverence for the papacy, but I definitely feel the need to discern truth in every written and oral declaration made against the resources I trust.
Vintage stuff here, Peter. Thank you. And I loved the Thomas Pink article you linked. You are wont to disparage 'neo-Scholasticism,' but to my mind Pink is a neo-Scholastic and his depth, clarity, and precision is just the kind of medicine the Church needs.
Thank you. I agree that Thomas Pink is a treasure. But note that while he enjoys knowledge of all the sources, he writes fluently in prose and not in the "more geometrico" manner of the manuals.
I wonder whom (a work) you would take as a paradigm example of this vicious manner? I would say 'more geometrico' is obviously a matter of degree and certainly can't be meant or attributed (with any honesty) literally. And so I would say that Pink does argue relatively 'more geometrico.' He carefully weighs and measures both sides of the question and delivers a clear verdict in his response to it.
Such a timely article, especially considering the tragic cancellation of the TLM in the Diocese of Knoxville (neighboring Charlotte) that was just announced.
Dr. K, it would be great if you could do a line-by-line response to the "humiliating" homily given to TLM attendees there over the weekend. Unfortunately, it seems even celebrants of the TLM are not immune to this hyperpapalist attitude.
Yes, that was a very humiliating and ill-informed homily.
I have refuted all those things so many times, I'm not sure I could stomach doing it again.
People who want a refutation of his false notion of obedience should read my short book "True Obedience in the Church," which happens to be on sale at Sophia now for $5 (usually $14.95):
I was there to hear the decision. Well, at least I was able to attend, and sing, for 3 TLM Masses since I arrived in Eastern Tennessee. Let us pray fervently for Pope Leo to reverse this terribly divisive Bergolian mess.
Lots of interweb ones and zeroes used here on hyperpapalism and obedience. That’s good and fine. But I doubt that’s what on the mind of those TLM parishioners in Knoxville TN who just learned this past weekend they’re about to be kicked to the street. You don’t need to be a professor with corduroys and elbow patches to understand who’s the faithful Roman Catholic and who’s not while the pope conducts obscenity laced pride parades through the Jubilee Door. Maybe it’s Rome that needs some stiff lectures from a learned professor, and not so much the hoi polloi concerned where their next Mass will come from.
When people are being constantly browbeaten about how they "must be obedient to their pastor, who is only being obedient to his bishop, who is only being obedient to the pope," then, yes, indeed, the considerations I presented here are rather important. It has nothing to do with corduroys and elbow patches (which, by the way, I don't have and have never had). Meanwhile, I am responsible for more underground TLMs than you have any idea about, so your comment is not especially helpful.
I apologize for the snarky humor, you are right, it was uncalled for. Your points are all valid Professor. But I weighed in out of frustration. I very seriously meant it when I expressed that your learned insight, at this critical time, might be better directed at the abusers rather than the abused. It’s disheartening to watch.
I see. I am criticizing Catholics who have a faulty notion of the papacy and of obedience, but this, in order to strengthen the resolve of tradition-loving Catholics to fight for their rights. Obviously I am critical of the post-Vatican II hierarchy, some would say far too much so!
I am a Pelican subscriber based in U.K. I am not happy: 1. It is impossible to download the app in U.K. from Apple Store. 2. One can find the website which is full of sales pitches and ways to buy a subscription but no link for existing subscribers. 3. I cannot access the materials.
PLEASE FIX! I feel I have been conned out of my money which of course is not the case! Not everyone lives in the US of A!
Scott, I'm sorry this has been frustrating for you. The team is working out various kinks that are bound to arise in a new project of this magnitude. They are working especially on the European access, which is harder and slower to get than American.
As I mentioned in a couple of posts, I will be sending you an email with a link for existing subscribers so that they can get their subscription transitioned and certainly not with any loss of money.
Also, EVERYTHING will continue to be published here until December 1, so you won't lose access to any of my content.
I have already lodged my complaint with your feedback team and been ignored. I know the devil is in the tech detail but having an app that cannot be downloaded is more than a detail: it’s a fundamental flaw.
Pelican+ is committed, as a Catholic entity, to standing against big tech tyranny and their exorbitant fees. Apple and Google demand 30% of all subscription revenue processed through their app stores. We refuse to fund platforms that oppose our values.
Because of this principled stance, you cannot subscribe through the native mobile apps. Instead, you must complete your subscription signup through the web version (using the links above). Once you’ve subscribed via the website, you can then download and use the mobile apps freely to access all content.
If you download the app before subscribing and try to access premium content, you’ll see an “unavailable” button rather than a “Subscribe” prompt. This is intentional. Simply go to the website link above to complete your subscription first.
Yes, it’s an inconvenience, but it’s the result of refusing to compromise our principles.
Thanks for the explanation. I commend your resistance to Apple tyranny. However and this may be my fault I cannot see the link to allow me to access your website.
Thanks for the link. It works but all it takes me to is the subscription page! But I have already paid for a premium membership for a year so 5% off a new subscription is not a very appealing offer! I hope you can send me a link to membership.
There will be a community section at Pelican where people can discuss articles and other things they want to ask about. It will function a little differently, but there will still be interacton with me and other authors.
This is from Gasser, right? While it's an official interpretation, it is not itself the dogmatic decree - and that is actually very important. Because Gasser is a mixture of rhetoric and fine-tuned interpretation, and the rhetorical flourishes are not incompatible with the sometimes mixed record of papal history, of which the fathers at Vatican I were well aware. You are treating Gasser as if he is identical to the Council.
Instead, what is necessary is to read exactly what Vatican I required of us to believe, and then ask yourself whether it is asserting the hyperpapalism that you continue to attribute to it. Please take a moment to read this:
It's only a maximalist reading if you attribute to certain phrases more than their face-value requires. A standard rule for reading any text is to say: "primacy [in all things in which there is primacy], full power [over all that to which such power can pertain]," etc. You would accuse me of importing those ideas. I say, rather, that they are inherent in the act of reading and thinking. After all, no one has ever said "full power" means the pope is authorized to declare 4 persons in the Trinity, or cancel out Theotokos and icons and relics.
Also, the Eastern Orthodox, although against abortion, accept two divorces and contraception.
Amen! The Catholic Church is the one and only true Church of Jesus Christ, outside of which there is no salvation. As this is traditional Catholic dogma, it boggles the mind how anyone who considers himself a "traditionalist" could ever contemplate leaving. "Lord, to whom shall we go..." (John 6:68)
The hyperpapalism you decry reminds me (on a different order of magnitude, but still similar) of the Muslim belief in Allah. He can do anything at all to the extent that the action could be contradictory or nonsensical, but if he wills it, it is so. It's not to say that the true God is always understandable (just ask Job), but He doesn't contradict Himself. It'd also telling that, to my knowledge, there's no mention of Allah loving people/creation. And wouldn't a pope who acted in a hyperpapal manner also be unloving?
Yes! The Regensburg Address notes the difference between voluntarism and belief in the Logos, in the God who is supreme truth and always acts consistently with that truth, for the good of His creatures.
This is a pathos argumentation that I tend to use when dealing with orthodox friends who seek to convert me. How can I possibly leave my heritage? How can I be someone I’m not? I am so western to the core I can never be eastern. Most of my orthodox friends are born in the US with no trace of eastern ancestry. They were either raised Catholic or Protestant and eventually gave up on the West for a Utopia belief of Eastern Orthodoxy.
To be honest sedevacantism is the only logical solution in this crisis. Most in the Novus Ordo are public heretics and apostates. By being in religious communion with Mister Prevost and the local heretic bishops, you are in union with everything Vatican II is about.
I used to go to indult masses in my hometown 10-20 years ago. The Novus Ordo hierarchy hates the traditional mass and the traditional faith. They are all children of heresy and apostasy. Truth and Error cannot coexist in the same organization. You can’t have Mister James Martin and Mister Raymond Burke under the same umbrella while professing completely different things. That is what you call a sect. Anglicans have sects. Talmudics have sects. Catholics aren’t supposed to have sects.
And yet, the ultimate irony is lost on no one but the sedevacantists that they have all the qualities of a sect, in spades. Read Knox's "Enthusiasm."
If one was to objectively observe the situation without preconceived bias to any position, one would have to come to the conclusion that the Novus Ordo is becoming to some variation of "Anglican-Lite". Again, in the Novus Ordo you have the "High Church" which consists of those who prefer the Rite of 1962. Then you have those who prefer the Low Church, that being the New Mass. Of course, you have the Eastern Rites as well. You can't have members of one religion, who hold completely contradictory views on essential issues. Go ask the average Novus Ordo parishioner, what is his view on homosexuality, abortion and other moral issues. Go ask the average Novus Ordo parishioner, if he believes in Catholic dogmas like the eucharist, purgatory, whether Catholicism is the true religion. You will be surprised, the average person who goes to the Novus Ordo is highly likely not Catholic. The average Novus Ordo clergy also hold onto one or more heresies, whether they preach it publicly or hold it occultly. Sedevacantists bicker and fight over issues which are not remotely trivial. I would say, a Catholic can go with confidence to a sedevacantist chapel, and they will get the exclusively The Catholic Faith. The same faith that grandparents and great-grandparents knew and cherished. You can't find that in the Novus Ordo. People that say they do, are liars. I ordered Fr Knox's book, and look forward to reading it.
No, we do not have to leave for Tradistan. We can, and should, build it right here because we have to fight evil where it is--we cannot flee from it. We need Catholic Shires to showcase the best of Christendom by building better families, organizations, and towns based on our Catholic faith. Until traditional Catholics seriously start to regroup and organize, we will continue to be picked-off one-by-one.
Agreed!
Thank you . . . I would welcome your thoughts on the idea of Catholic Shires. I have a short ebook that lays out the details here: https://fighting4salvation.substack.com/p/fighting-4-salvation
See my response to this opening sentence in your post below: "During the past dozen years (and running), one hears of Catholics losing or questioning their faith because they think: “If a pope can be so wrong, then the Catholic religion mustn’t be true.'"
That line of thought makes sense to me, after the painfully erroneous things I have seen the past three popes do and say. When I saw outrageous actions by previous popes, such as the inclusion of a Buddha statue at the Assisi event. under Pope John Paul II or how Pope Benedict XVI kissed a Koran, I was consoled by what I had been taught. I was told that no pope no matter how depraved or unbelieving or heretical in his actions had ever authentically taught erroneous doctrines. Then came the infamous footnote and interpretation that allowed couples married outside the laws of the church to continue living in sinful unions without embracing chastity, and I saw that Pope Francis added it to the ordinary teaching magisterium of the Church. THis was in spite of how it contradicted what the Church has always and everywhere taught. Then I thought, what else do I have to hang onto? But then the only answer is Peter's, Where else can I go?
Yes - Pope Francis compelled thoughtful Catholics to realize that the pope can be more erroneous than perhaps they had realized previously.
After that, I didn't have any rationale to hold onto.
Thank you so much for this piece. The church unfortunately has a history of condemning its most faithful who prove their faithfulness by remaining unified with her.
I think the greater population forgets the Pope is just a man. (Hopefully) more credentialed than the rest of us but still susceptible to errors and sin. I will always have great love and reverence for the papacy, but I definitely feel the need to discern truth in every written and oral declaration made against the resources I trust.
Vintage stuff here, Peter. Thank you. And I loved the Thomas Pink article you linked. You are wont to disparage 'neo-Scholasticism,' but to my mind Pink is a neo-Scholastic and his depth, clarity, and precision is just the kind of medicine the Church needs.
Thank you. I agree that Thomas Pink is a treasure. But note that while he enjoys knowledge of all the sources, he writes fluently in prose and not in the "more geometrico" manner of the manuals.
I wonder whom (a work) you would take as a paradigm example of this vicious manner? I would say 'more geometrico' is obviously a matter of degree and certainly can't be meant or attributed (with any honesty) literally. And so I would say that Pink does argue relatively 'more geometrico.' He carefully weighs and measures both sides of the question and delivers a clear verdict in his response to it.
Yes, that's true, not like Spinoza's Ethics.
Such a timely article, especially considering the tragic cancellation of the TLM in the Diocese of Knoxville (neighboring Charlotte) that was just announced.
Dr. K, it would be great if you could do a line-by-line response to the "humiliating" homily given to TLM attendees there over the weekend. Unfortunately, it seems even celebrants of the TLM are not immune to this hyperpapalist attitude.
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2025/10/traditional-latin-mass-annihilated-in.html
Yes, that was a very humiliating and ill-informed homily.
I have refuted all those things so many times, I'm not sure I could stomach doing it again.
People who want a refutation of his false notion of obedience should read my short book "True Obedience in the Church," which happens to be on sale at Sophia now for $5 (usually $14.95):
https://sophiainstitute.com/product/true-obedience-in-the-church/
His claim about Christ the King misunderstands the problem with the change in feast from Pius XI to Paul VI:
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/should-feast-of-christ-king-be.html
The claim that splashing in some Latin and chant to the Novus Ordo will somehow overcome its inherent limitations has been refuted here:
https://onepeterfive.com/latin-novus-ordo-not-solution/
and
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2019/11/on-fiftieth-anniversary-of-novus-ordo.html
I was there to hear the decision. Well, at least I was able to attend, and sing, for 3 TLM Masses since I arrived in Eastern Tennessee. Let us pray fervently for Pope Leo to reverse this terribly divisive Bergolian mess.
Lots of interweb ones and zeroes used here on hyperpapalism and obedience. That’s good and fine. But I doubt that’s what on the mind of those TLM parishioners in Knoxville TN who just learned this past weekend they’re about to be kicked to the street. You don’t need to be a professor with corduroys and elbow patches to understand who’s the faithful Roman Catholic and who’s not while the pope conducts obscenity laced pride parades through the Jubilee Door. Maybe it’s Rome that needs some stiff lectures from a learned professor, and not so much the hoi polloi concerned where their next Mass will come from.
When people are being constantly browbeaten about how they "must be obedient to their pastor, who is only being obedient to his bishop, who is only being obedient to the pope," then, yes, indeed, the considerations I presented here are rather important. It has nothing to do with corduroys and elbow patches (which, by the way, I don't have and have never had). Meanwhile, I am responsible for more underground TLMs than you have any idea about, so your comment is not especially helpful.
I apologize for the snarky humor, you are right, it was uncalled for. Your points are all valid Professor. But I weighed in out of frustration. I very seriously meant it when I expressed that your learned insight, at this critical time, might be better directed at the abusers rather than the abused. It’s disheartening to watch.
I see. I am criticizing Catholics who have a faulty notion of the papacy and of obedience, but this, in order to strengthen the resolve of tradition-loving Catholics to fight for their rights. Obviously I am critical of the post-Vatican II hierarchy, some would say far too much so!
I would hope so
I am a Pelican subscriber based in U.K. I am not happy: 1. It is impossible to download the app in U.K. from Apple Store. 2. One can find the website which is full of sales pitches and ways to buy a subscription but no link for existing subscribers. 3. I cannot access the materials.
PLEASE FIX! I feel I have been conned out of my money which of course is not the case! Not everyone lives in the US of A!
Scott, I'm sorry this has been frustrating for you. The team is working out various kinks that are bound to arise in a new project of this magnitude. They are working especially on the European access, which is harder and slower to get than American.
As I mentioned in a couple of posts, I will be sending you an email with a link for existing subscribers so that they can get their subscription transitioned and certainly not with any loss of money.
Also, EVERYTHING will continue to be published here until December 1, so you won't lose access to any of my content.
I have already lodged my complaint with your feedback team and been ignored. I know the devil is in the tech detail but having an app that cannot be downloaded is more than a detail: it’s a fundamental flaw.
Here is a full explanation:
Pelican+ is committed, as a Catholic entity, to standing against big tech tyranny and their exorbitant fees. Apple and Google demand 30% of all subscription revenue processed through their app stores. We refuse to fund platforms that oppose our values.
Because of this principled stance, you cannot subscribe through the native mobile apps. Instead, you must complete your subscription signup through the web version (using the links above). Once you’ve subscribed via the website, you can then download and use the mobile apps freely to access all content.
If you download the app before subscribing and try to access premium content, you’ll see an “unavailable” button rather than a “Subscribe” prompt. This is intentional. Simply go to the website link above to complete your subscription first.
Yes, it’s an inconvenience, but it’s the result of refusing to compromise our principles.
Thanks for the explanation. I commend your resistance to Apple tyranny. However and this may be my fault I cannot see the link to allow me to access your website.
Try this link, which comes with a 5% coupon:
https://app.pelicanplus.com/menu/checkout/kwas?linkId=lp_399824&sourceId=dr-peter-kwasniewski&tenantId=pelicanplus
Thanks for the link. It works but all it takes me to is the subscription page! But I have already paid for a premium membership for a year so 5% off a new subscription is not a very appealing offer! I hope you can send me a link to membership.
There will be a community section at Pelican where people can discuss articles and other things they want to ask about. It will function a little differently, but there will still be interacton with me and other authors.
This is from Gasser, right? While it's an official interpretation, it is not itself the dogmatic decree - and that is actually very important. Because Gasser is a mixture of rhetoric and fine-tuned interpretation, and the rhetorical flourishes are not incompatible with the sometimes mixed record of papal history, of which the fathers at Vatican I were well aware. You are treating Gasser as if he is identical to the Council.
Instead, what is necessary is to read exactly what Vatican I required of us to believe, and then ask yourself whether it is asserting the hyperpapalism that you continue to attribute to it. Please take a moment to read this:
https://onepeterfive.com/dubia-vatican-one/
It's only a maximalist reading if you attribute to certain phrases more than their face-value requires. A standard rule for reading any text is to say: "primacy [in all things in which there is primacy], full power [over all that to which such power can pertain]," etc. You would accuse me of importing those ideas. I say, rather, that they are inherent in the act of reading and thinking. After all, no one has ever said "full power" means the pope is authorized to declare 4 persons in the Trinity, or cancel out Theotokos and icons and relics.