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Greg Cook's avatar

Extrapolating from Tolkien's passage on trees and the Faith, I expect the Ents would then be the authentic liturgists. Who might the Ents of today be? Certainly Saruman would be the modernist.

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Peter Kwasniewski's avatar

I don't know, but I suppose if Aquinas were here, he'd have to include a new chapter in his treasure "De Ente et Essentia."

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Jeron Smith's avatar

I came to the TLM in late summer 2023. Since then, the handful of Paul VI Masses I've attended (funerals, inclement weather prohibiting travel to my TLM) grate on my soul. The more I know , the deeper I proceed into Tradition, the less I can stomach or tolerate the true backwardness and immaturity of the novus ordo. Give me meat food to feed upon. And when discussing matters Liturgical or Faith with family, the deer-in-the-headlights response I get with objections of my "snobbery" are leading me to wonder, truly: what will it take for people to "get it?" When I told a cousin this week that the Mass isn't about us, and it doesn't matter essentially if you aren't "getting anything out of it," she tersely said with an air of resentment, "well I guess I've just been doing it wrong all these years." She might as well have followed with, "...and I don't care, I want the feels." Oddly- or maybe not so oddly- the less I worry about the feels and enter into the prayers of the Usus Antiquior, the more I'm fed; the deeper I feel; the stronger and more right-ordered I become. Repent from the path of Vatican Ii and proceed with our Tradition! Indeed we shall.

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Peter Kwasniewski's avatar

That's the wonderful paradox: when you start to forget yourself in the objectivity of the rite, that is when a whole new level of prayer opens up. It's a transition from emotion to a more spiritual plane, even, I would say, into contemplation.

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Domus Aurea's avatar

It is that “snobbery” accusation that I don’t know to handle. Admittedly, there is an elitism in the TLM, not that we’re better by any stretch, but there we find an elevated wisdom that’s not available elsewhere. Outside, we became painfully aware of indifference over detail, a casual view about God, and a mediocrity that is no longer tolerable.

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Peter Kwasniewski's avatar

Quite so. Emily Finley has a marvelous piece about this, which I highly recommend:

https://efinley.substack.com/p/are-tlm-catholics-elitists

The idea that we should not strive for our very best in divine worship - that this would somehow be proud or vain - is the kind of infintely stupid idea that could only be thought up by modern Westerners.

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Shannon Rose's avatar

Very helpful and thorough article, Dr K. I thank you very much. You know, when I read that new edition of Blessed Catherine Emmerich’s life of Jesus that you reviewed some time ago, I was deeply moved to learn that during the days after the Resurrection and before Our Lord’s ascension, He spent long hours instructing Peter and John about how to conduct the Mass. I was astonished by her descriptions of how the Mass developed then, as it seemed so close to the Mass of the Ages.

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blah's avatar
Jan 23Edited

A carelessly pruned tree is a tragedy, and careless pruners should not be given shears, saws, or authority to prune trees.

A really thought-provoking discussion.

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Jan 25
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Peter Kwasniewski's avatar

Exactly!

The reformers imitated the supposed simplicity of the early church - but not its radical asceticism!

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Domus Aurea's avatar

Or its deadly persecution!

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Peter Kwasniewski's avatar

Right - you can bet if the Catholic Church reaffirmed clearly all of its stances on faith and morals, it would be persecuted like the dickens.

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