Moral theology is not determined by democracy (especially not of the laity). The nobilities and commoners indulged in a lot of debaucheries (uncontrolled social dance parties, monarchs having mistresses) in the old days but that does not mean the Church approved of them--hence the saintly priests of old had to write sermons to preach aga…
Moral theology is not determined by democracy (especially not of the laity). The nobilities and commoners indulged in a lot of debaucheries (uncontrolled social dance parties, monarchs having mistresses) in the old days but that does not mean the Church approved of them--hence the saintly priests of old had to write sermons to preach against dancing in specific because the people at their time thought it was okay when it wasn't.
Saintly priests of old wrote sermons from which we can benefit, but their target audiences were their own flock. In France of 1824, a parish priest might be aware that dances in his own village (where there was alcohol, insufficient chaperonage, nearby woods, and other inducements to sin) were leading to violations of the 6th and 10th commandment. Having noted that the particular dances of that particular time were danced in a particular way (and not being an authority on the history of dance or knowing much about dance or, indeed, sports), he might well assemble an arsenal of texts to argue his thesis that dancing is wrong. His real target is fornication, but he believes dancing leads inexorably to fornication, so he is only doing his priestly duty. However, in 2024, the very opening of a computer can be, for some, an occasion for sexual sin. Souls may be falling like snowflakes into hell, but it's not because they are frequenting chaperoned community dances in which dancers are instructed in traditional dance patterns and they are minding their steps and avoiding bumping into other dancers, smiling or laughing with real merriment--the closest we get, in adult life, to the merriment we felt as infants playing ring-around-the-rosy or the hokey-pokey. The violations of men's and women's souls in 2024 are occurring online, assisted by grotesque evils of pornography. In 2024, priests must warn their own specific flocks not against social ballroom or folk dancing, as it is practiced amongst their flock (if at all), but against abuse of the internet, including so-called "dating" apps like Tinder. In 1824, dancing might have been an excuse--or opportunity--for sin. In 2024, dancing takes the young away from the overwhelmingly obvious occasion for sin of our day: their own computers and smartphones.
And now that I know who you are, I should explain that "Ring around the Rosy" and the "Hokey-Pokey" are the North American names for what are now children's dances very common in what we now call the "Anglosphere."
The comparison between dancing and using a computer as potential occasions of sin oversimplifies the issue by neglecting the distinct ends (Aquinas's) and moral contexts of each activity. Both can indeed be occasions of sin depending on their use, but the nature, purpose, and inherent risks of each are different.
1. Ends of Public/Ballroom Dancing:
Physical Proximity and Interaction: The primary purpose of ballroom or public dancing is social interaction, often involving close physical contact, especially between men and women. The intimacy of the interaction, combined with the potential for flirtation or the arousal of sensual desires, makes this kind of activity a potential occasion for sin, especially in the realm of chastity and modesty.
Entertainment and Social Enjoyment: Dancing is often pursued for entertainment, fun, or the enjoyment of the company of others. While not inherently sinful, the context and intentions behind social dancing can easily lead to temptations, immodesty, or a focus on sensual pleasures. For example, dancing can become an environment for vanity (showing off), flirtation, or excessive attachment to physical pleasure.
Occasion of Sin: Because of the close proximity and bodily interaction, ballroom dancing, particularly in certain settings (e.g., parties, mixed company, and romantic atmospheres), presents a greater risk of being an occasion for sin, particularly related to purity and chastity. The traditional Catholic caution here arises from the fact that physical interactions can easily lead to impure thoughts or desires, and even if the act itself is neutral, the context can quickly become morally problematic.
2. Ends of Using a Computer:
Work and Communication: The primary purpose of a computer is to facilitate various practical tasks, such as work, communication, research, and education. The computer serves as a tool that can be used for a wide variety of ends, many of which are morally neutral or even good, such as evangelization, studying the faith, or connecting with others.
Entertainment and Information: Like dancing, a computer can also be used for entertainment (movies, games, social media) and accessing information. However, the risk of using a computer as an occasion of sin depends more on how it is used (e.g., accessing immoral content like pornography, wasting time on trivial matters, or engaging in gossip) than the mere act of using the device.
Occasion of Sin: While using a computer can certainly become an occasion of sin (through immoral websites, excessive distraction, etc.), its primary purpose is not inherently tied to physical or sensual interaction. A computer does not necessarily present the same risks to purity or modesty that ballroom dancing does, especially since it is often used in isolation or for practical tasks. The computer, by itself, is morally neutral and its potential for sin comes from its misuse rather than from its inherent nature.
3. Comparing the Two:
Physical Interaction vs. Remote Tool: The key difference between dancing and using a computer lies in the level of physical and sensual interaction. Ballroom dancing, especially with its emphasis on physical closeness, can more directly incite impure thoughts or desires, making it a more immediate occasion of sin in the realm of chastity. On the other hand, a computer is primarily a tool for tasks or communication, with its moral dangers being more indirect and dependent on how the user chooses to engage with it.
Social Setting vs. Personal Use: Public dancing occurs in a social setting, where one’s interactions with others, especially the opposite sex, can create temptations or situations where sin becomes more likely. A computer, however, is more often used in private or for utilitarian purposes, which means its moral risk is largely dependent on individual choice rather than inherent to the activity.
4. Moral Context and Intentions:
Dancing and Intentions: Ballroom dancing, especially when done for entertainment or socializing, carries risks tied to the intentions of the participants. If the dance is pursued with intentions that involve vanity, flirtation, or seeking romantic or sensual pleasure, it can easily become an occasion of sin. Traditional Catholic moral theology would emphasize avoiding situations where one’s purity or modesty might be compromised.
Using a Computer and Intentions: The moral use of a computer depends almost entirely on the user’s intentions and actions. Using it for work, education, or even legitimate entertainment can be morally good or neutral. However, it can also be used for immoral ends, like engaging in pornography or wasting time in a manner that neglects one’s duties. The context is more flexible and less inherently tied to physical or emotional interactions.
5. The Traditional Catholic View on Occasions of Sin:
Close Physical Contact and Temptation: From a traditional Catholic perspective, the close physical contact involved in ballroom dancing makes it more likely to lead to impure thoughts, desires, or actions. This type of physical interaction, particularly between unmarried men and women, has the potential to stir up sensual temptations, making it a direct occasion of sin.
Indirect Temptation in Technology: While a computer can certainly be used to sin, the temptation comes from how it is used rather than the nature of the tool itself. A computer does not inherently involve the same kind of physical or emotional intimacy that dancing does, making it a more indirect occasion of sin.
You need to get to some more social ballroom dances and see for yourself how they actually are. Your description resembles nothing that I or my wide circle of friends have experienced in this regard. Moreover, and I am sorry to say it, if someone viewed a dance like the swing or the waltz as a near occasion of sin, it would indicate a warped mind, as most social dances simply ARE NOT of that nature. As was already admitted in the original post, if something can be an occasion of sin for a particular person, he or she should avoid it; but that is by no means an excuse to apply a total ban to everyone, everywhere.
Moral theology is not determined by democracy (especially not of the laity). The nobilities and commoners indulged in a lot of debaucheries (uncontrolled social dance parties, monarchs having mistresses) in the old days but that does not mean the Church approved of them--hence the saintly priests of old had to write sermons to preach against dancing in specific because the people at their time thought it was okay when it wasn't.
Saintly priests of old wrote sermons from which we can benefit, but their target audiences were their own flock. In France of 1824, a parish priest might be aware that dances in his own village (where there was alcohol, insufficient chaperonage, nearby woods, and other inducements to sin) were leading to violations of the 6th and 10th commandment. Having noted that the particular dances of that particular time were danced in a particular way (and not being an authority on the history of dance or knowing much about dance or, indeed, sports), he might well assemble an arsenal of texts to argue his thesis that dancing is wrong. His real target is fornication, but he believes dancing leads inexorably to fornication, so he is only doing his priestly duty. However, in 2024, the very opening of a computer can be, for some, an occasion for sexual sin. Souls may be falling like snowflakes into hell, but it's not because they are frequenting chaperoned community dances in which dancers are instructed in traditional dance patterns and they are minding their steps and avoiding bumping into other dancers, smiling or laughing with real merriment--the closest we get, in adult life, to the merriment we felt as infants playing ring-around-the-rosy or the hokey-pokey. The violations of men's and women's souls in 2024 are occurring online, assisted by grotesque evils of pornography. In 2024, priests must warn their own specific flocks not against social ballroom or folk dancing, as it is practiced amongst their flock (if at all), but against abuse of the internet, including so-called "dating" apps like Tinder. In 1824, dancing might have been an excuse--or opportunity--for sin. In 2024, dancing takes the young away from the overwhelmingly obvious occasion for sin of our day: their own computers and smartphones.
Sorry! Can't figure out how to edit. That should be the 6th and *9th* commandments, of course.
And now that I know who you are, I should explain that "Ring around the Rosy" and the "Hokey-Pokey" are the North American names for what are now children's dances very common in what we now call the "Anglosphere."
The comparison between dancing and using a computer as potential occasions of sin oversimplifies the issue by neglecting the distinct ends (Aquinas's) and moral contexts of each activity. Both can indeed be occasions of sin depending on their use, but the nature, purpose, and inherent risks of each are different.
1. Ends of Public/Ballroom Dancing:
Physical Proximity and Interaction: The primary purpose of ballroom or public dancing is social interaction, often involving close physical contact, especially between men and women. The intimacy of the interaction, combined with the potential for flirtation or the arousal of sensual desires, makes this kind of activity a potential occasion for sin, especially in the realm of chastity and modesty.
Entertainment and Social Enjoyment: Dancing is often pursued for entertainment, fun, or the enjoyment of the company of others. While not inherently sinful, the context and intentions behind social dancing can easily lead to temptations, immodesty, or a focus on sensual pleasures. For example, dancing can become an environment for vanity (showing off), flirtation, or excessive attachment to physical pleasure.
Occasion of Sin: Because of the close proximity and bodily interaction, ballroom dancing, particularly in certain settings (e.g., parties, mixed company, and romantic atmospheres), presents a greater risk of being an occasion for sin, particularly related to purity and chastity. The traditional Catholic caution here arises from the fact that physical interactions can easily lead to impure thoughts or desires, and even if the act itself is neutral, the context can quickly become morally problematic.
2. Ends of Using a Computer:
Work and Communication: The primary purpose of a computer is to facilitate various practical tasks, such as work, communication, research, and education. The computer serves as a tool that can be used for a wide variety of ends, many of which are morally neutral or even good, such as evangelization, studying the faith, or connecting with others.
Entertainment and Information: Like dancing, a computer can also be used for entertainment (movies, games, social media) and accessing information. However, the risk of using a computer as an occasion of sin depends more on how it is used (e.g., accessing immoral content like pornography, wasting time on trivial matters, or engaging in gossip) than the mere act of using the device.
Occasion of Sin: While using a computer can certainly become an occasion of sin (through immoral websites, excessive distraction, etc.), its primary purpose is not inherently tied to physical or sensual interaction. A computer does not necessarily present the same risks to purity or modesty that ballroom dancing does, especially since it is often used in isolation or for practical tasks. The computer, by itself, is morally neutral and its potential for sin comes from its misuse rather than from its inherent nature.
3. Comparing the Two:
Physical Interaction vs. Remote Tool: The key difference between dancing and using a computer lies in the level of physical and sensual interaction. Ballroom dancing, especially with its emphasis on physical closeness, can more directly incite impure thoughts or desires, making it a more immediate occasion of sin in the realm of chastity. On the other hand, a computer is primarily a tool for tasks or communication, with its moral dangers being more indirect and dependent on how the user chooses to engage with it.
Social Setting vs. Personal Use: Public dancing occurs in a social setting, where one’s interactions with others, especially the opposite sex, can create temptations or situations where sin becomes more likely. A computer, however, is more often used in private or for utilitarian purposes, which means its moral risk is largely dependent on individual choice rather than inherent to the activity.
4. Moral Context and Intentions:
Dancing and Intentions: Ballroom dancing, especially when done for entertainment or socializing, carries risks tied to the intentions of the participants. If the dance is pursued with intentions that involve vanity, flirtation, or seeking romantic or sensual pleasure, it can easily become an occasion of sin. Traditional Catholic moral theology would emphasize avoiding situations where one’s purity or modesty might be compromised.
Using a Computer and Intentions: The moral use of a computer depends almost entirely on the user’s intentions and actions. Using it for work, education, or even legitimate entertainment can be morally good or neutral. However, it can also be used for immoral ends, like engaging in pornography or wasting time in a manner that neglects one’s duties. The context is more flexible and less inherently tied to physical or emotional interactions.
5. The Traditional Catholic View on Occasions of Sin:
Close Physical Contact and Temptation: From a traditional Catholic perspective, the close physical contact involved in ballroom dancing makes it more likely to lead to impure thoughts, desires, or actions. This type of physical interaction, particularly between unmarried men and women, has the potential to stir up sensual temptations, making it a direct occasion of sin.
Indirect Temptation in Technology: While a computer can certainly be used to sin, the temptation comes from how it is used rather than the nature of the tool itself. A computer does not inherently involve the same kind of physical or emotional intimacy that dancing does, making it a more indirect occasion of sin.
You need to get to some more social ballroom dances and see for yourself how they actually are. Your description resembles nothing that I or my wide circle of friends have experienced in this regard. Moreover, and I am sorry to say it, if someone viewed a dance like the swing or the waltz as a near occasion of sin, it would indicate a warped mind, as most social dances simply ARE NOT of that nature. As was already admitted in the original post, if something can be an occasion of sin for a particular person, he or she should avoid it; but that is by no means an excuse to apply a total ban to everyone, everywhere.